ome back to the Friday podcast I’m your host big J I’m RJ and today we got a legend in the building
0:05Legend he likes to be called Robin but his actual name is Karl Robin Junga kjamm hope I got it right that’s right
0:12yeah hey thank you for coming thank you very much for coming on appr appreciate it thanks for taking time out um so
0:20let’s get going right from the start um early life where did you where were you born where did you grow up uh I was born
0:26in carlisle, you can’t get any further north than this country right uh brought up in the Lake District and then came down to
0:33the Midlands to UNI okay to study maths mathematical physics which Union was
0:39that Nottingham Nottingham and um going back to early life where did the musical influence come from hey you know what I
0:47found out recently and I mean the last year or so um that I’ve got laian
0:54cousins eiles one of them’s uh uh some big wig conductor one of the
1:00Northern um Norwegian or Swedish uh symphony orchestras and okay interesting
1:07his brother is a concert pianist why did you find that out so lingly uh because with the diaspora right so I didn’t go
1:14back to LV until I was in my 30 so it’s like because my mom’s Brit so you’re
1:21like you don’t I mean you don’t connect with that side and then you connect with it and they’re going oh yeah yeah you got dead cousins in Australia and Canada
1:28and by the way ones lives in in in Ireland and and ones that it’s like so that explains a bit of it right so um I
1:35don’t know it was a calling I like I remember when I was about 5 watching a TV advert for like a Boni organ okay
1:43like crazy stuff they were doing book [ __ ] right it’s like I’m going ma’am I want one of them and she’s going and she
1:50ignores me for a bit and she goes well you have to do piano lessons I’m going all right so I do piano lessons I start
1:56must been about six were you forced into that or was that I’m going yeah all right fine and she’s like oh [ __ ] he
2:03means it he’s serious about B me a piano and not the organ so I’m like I’m now doing all the classical stuff so oh wow
2:09so I don’t know it was a calling and then I tried to steer out of it and I went to do the mathematical physics I
2:15did a PhD and AI okay and I was trying to manage the band I was in at the time
2:20the Hoovers um which is my other band which finally released some stuff in the
2:26last few years and um never quite got written up they wanted more detail yeah
2:32like then you you couldn’t do just word processing thing you had to line it all up and type as well as do everything else for it right and then take in a
2:38floppy disc and put it man anyway and so it never got written up and then I was
2:44in next thing I knew was in a studio working as a tea boy where was that still in the Midland
2:50or it’s yeah that was in Derby right and so next thing I was working on New Order
2:56and electronic and doing mixes for GR Parker might pick in and picking up on that whole scene so I was working on how
3:04did it evolve from being T boy to that that’s what I mean well because I got a job as a t-boy because I was a musician
3:10keyboard player I knew the midi backwards right and I taught myself out of sound on sound magazine and how we
3:15self teaching back then was cuz obviously there wasn’t YouTube or well sound on sound that was it okay yeah we literally celebrating our 25th
3:22anniversary of our studio the studio I set up later right and I’ve and I’ve written to sound on sound going hey you
3:28know I taught myself how to engineer out of sound on sound I don’t suppose you’d be interested in like a Studio’s been
3:33going for 25 years on a real budget doing the stuff that you know your Glenn shiks and stuff have been doing but for
3:39a lot longer right the these big boys that from came from Big mastering houses or whatever uh of course they just they
3:45just blank it it’s like so far I mean maybe I’m you know maybe I’m but whatever but so yeah from sound on sound
3:51and then and then you’re picking up on the job cuz you know you’re fixing toilets and I was actually employed by
3:56the record company we sign W Cliff okay yeah right y heard about him and so we
4:02were theany record compan was kind of looking after him yeah and then I was I was running Food and Drugs for the guys
4:08in the studios and all that kind of stuff and you know what I mean it’s like go and get us answer we whatever you know how long did it take to become the
4:15T boy to running no to to running everything six
4:20weeks six weeks after I started bear in mind I was a a programmer right so I knew the sequence inside of it hot right
4:28uh but I’d never been in a the studio as a you know I recorded as an artist 6 weeks later I was recording a metal band
4:35on a Wednesday night uh in the Rain the studio you had to go outside and go up to this to the to the recording room was
4:40upstairs you had to fly out and up and downstairs you didn’t have to keep you fit to the control room downstairs so I
4:46was let loose as a as you know local band whatever um and in the meantime I was shadowing all these big mixes and
4:51then suddenly I was engineering them and whatever what I mean so we had these big names coming down from Manchester from the Hender and Mike picker and and
4:58people I I advised Mike on um what Kitty needed to set his Studio up when he was setting M People up Mike’s people as
5:04they were called originally right it was a project name um and I was like yeah yeah you need this Atari 1040 that’s
5:11what it was at the time you know whatever so we were g a lot of advice on that so that’s what I found myself there going well and then it’s like well it’s
5:19that that was the way forward like like I said it was a calling I was trying to steer away from it and I came back to it
5:24going no no no I got to do this music I was turning down jobs on loads of money for the AI right and I’m going n it’s
5:30just Soul destroying it’s like I’m going to be sitting coding it’s like it’d be quite interesting be quite exciting but
5:37that’s not what I want to do it’s not where my heart is so um what what time of what year was this so I
5:45started at square dance as it was in Derby in uh 89 late ’89 October okay
5:50yeah it’s what 35 years ago so we just we were hitting all of that we were still on tape at the time analog and
5:57stuff but we were hitting all of that 90 stuff that was coming through that was a good time for music man that was a good
6:03[Music] time90s ’90s was like for me the Golden
6:08Era of music I think mate the free parties all that stuff you can’t do anymore now it’s so it’s so hard to do
6:13what we did with the crazy [ __ ] we got up to I could imagine man um so when was your like big break if you want to call
6:20it I don’t I I don’t know I don’t know what that means cuz it’s all been kind of like a steady progress It’s like you
6:27get these kind of like oh that’s great that’s got signed yeah oh great that’s got signed so it comes in these like
6:32fits and starts and then I don’t know I was running around in a in a in an outfit called KK Kings which is a half
6:38Punjabi half white crew oh about KKK half Punjabi we we took it we took
6:45it so that was amri’s idea right so it was it was reclaiming that KKK um I love that and uh and and we were smashing it
6:52up we got we got barred off radio one we had we had we had gigs threatened
6:58for bomb threats or whatever at the atoria in London and D with nasty Stu NY stuff cuz cuz it was half Punjabi half
7:05white we were blazing a trail with the suffre boys and on like had this mental single that got that that got dropped
7:11off the radio it got a-listed and then dropped within a week and ended up in the Bargain Bin in ja got see name to
7:17name it that you know especially at that time as well that track was called holidays in the ukk Kingdom that’s why
7:23it got ban it was a it was a it started as a Punjabi remix of Cliff Richard’s summer holiday bow bow
7:31is there anywhere we can listen to this it’s on it’s it’s on YouTube is it go look at go look at I can point you to it
7:38with a direct link later if you want but if you look if you look at KK Kings holidays in the ukk Kingdom you should
7:44find it on YouTube cuz I if not it on Vimeo cuz I put it up on Vimeo so I’m going to have to check this out
7:50definitely it’s crazy the video is in Southall right on this open top double decker bus it’s February we are freezing
7:55our nads off right but it’s dead Sunny everyone’s in Shades and like yeah and it looks great and glorious like we’re
8:01going off into some M you know Mumbai you know uh sunshine you know sunset or whatever it’s like it was NAD freezing
8:08but it looks great um back to when you did start so when you um went up from
8:14your t- boy to working in the music um what was your so what was your first your inspiration and what was your
8:20aspiration where did you want to end up I was trying to get my band sign still okay yeah I was like I was like well you
8:25know what I mean it’s like I was like this was I was doing I was learning out to engineer from me kind of like a it’s
8:31like like a side hustle in a sense going yeah well look I can do this right so in the meantime that’s keeping me it’s like
8:37I learn how to do that I don’t have to ask anyone else how to do it yeah and so it actually took a while for that to to
8:43kick in you know I’ve been through W cliff and loads of other stuff and really learned cut my teeth as an
8:50engineer commercial engineer and uh and then we started having record companies
8:55chasing us with a million Sons like every record company chasing us single of the week all this crazy crap right
9:01yeah but that took a while and how did you deal with that was it different to what you used to I’d seen all that with
9:06W Cliff when you get this mega mega interest literally a biding War right we
9:12were sat in the boardroom at London records with Pete Tong and we was signing this I think it was 150k deal on
9:17this single and and Emi uh were on the other end of the phone going we’ll double it
9:24and we’re like no we’re going with Pete Tong you’re all Muppets it’s like you none of you know what you’re talking about Pete Tong is the only guy that’s talk any sense to us about what we want
9:30to do with the the album and and all this stuff cuz we were loads of sampling Avalanche is kind of star that
9:36Avalanches were a thing and it’s like it was about re ripping up and Recycling and well everyone Nicks what we’re going to do is Nick obviously right but really
9:44subtly and use it in with real class and so it’s not just like flinging a Top Line in and and it’s like well look
9:50we’re making something else out of someone else’s work yeah just taking it Reinventing it and then put right and
9:56putting it into a completely different purpose right and and the wall like you know we sampled Sila black and put it
10:02with um the the Clockwork Orange theme chin right Magpie theme tune and and and
10:08then a bit of Strauss or something and it’s like and and and turn it into some sort hip-hop Vibe it’s like um that
10:15sound that’s on the album that’s that’s on that’s on Spotify now that’s out of my head on on million Sons right so um
10:20that that and then we sample Simpsons and Muhammad Ali and made stay off the dope I want to tell the children of the world to live a clean life and stay off
10:27the dope which was and then you get bow you know when you were sampling all this stuff back in there was there royalties
10:33to pay we had interestingly amri our manager is no
10:39longer with us um I mean I mean rip amri right not like no longer managing us um
10:46he everyone has back channels right yeah so The Simpsons thing it’s Fox right so
10:54he made inquiries to our lawyer our lawyer was Dave gentle is still is technically I guess the guy that
10:59defended George Michael against Sony and so these back channels open up I don’t know who who who who shakes with whose
11:05hand or how these conversations happen but they go through back channels and we got the word back and they said yeah be
11:10fine as long as it goes to a good home it’s not who it’s not what you know it’s who you know it’s the big deal with Reco
11:16companies right they Gat keep they Gat they gatekeep what’s going on in Spotify to my to my understanding we’ve had such
11:23a struggle with this record with um a million Sons with you know he’s got taboom Chaka Khan and their brother Mark
11:30right yeah Mark’s not well he’s had two strokes I don’t know how much music the GU got left publicly right um probably
11:37the most famous vocal family on the planet yeah BBC will not touch this record I don’t think they’ve played it
11:43at all we got major PL pluggers on it no the first time around we did it Maran Hobbs was on the video Pete Tong had
11:51signed it those two have a lot of power and and and go whatever yeah but we were offering Dean Jackson three times on
11:58email we offered for him an interview with taka from the states this is Cha’s sister the lead vocalist on it yeah
12:04she’s a legend right tak’s a legend in her own right right right and and we’re going well look Dean you know this this
12:10the first mixes dropping May mix is dropping May 24 I think it was do you want to uh interview on the phone from
12:17they’re in uh Georgia now with taka from the states yeah he didn’t even answer
12:23there there’s a big opportunity there I’m saying there’s one of the remixes is an LA lad now a bones he’s from
12:30Nottingham one one of my ex- students uh uh the two of the other remixes are Nottingham Claude money and and uh and
12:36electric gumber Simon Patterson who’s associate professor of Music at the at the Nottingham University it’s on a
12:42upstart leester label at it’s all East Midlands we’re in a Sheffield distributor like all of it upst going
12:49going against the grain not interested why was that do you think I don’t know I can’t I can’t tell maybe we’re all GS I
12:57don’t know it’s like maybe you have to you know pretty face to get get I don’t
13:02I don’t know what it is I again it’s the who is kind of screwed anyway because they push what they want to push and
13:08people like music is so subjective and I guess it’s just like whoever really pushes it out decides what gets played
13:14and what doesn’t get played this this record is a Grammy Contender right so it’s like but be as far as I know you
13:21know we’ve we’ve contacted personally marrying Hobbs uh and and Craig Charles and various people and no one’s about
13:28Bitten on it and no one is playing it so the Grammys recognize it but so so the
13:33recording Academy are going yeah yeah that’s a legit cause man that’s a good tune right and it’s how does that make sense it might not yeah look it’s who
13:40knows if it makes the final nominations on the fourth right you enough recognition just getting the consideration to be considered for a
13:47Grammy that’s a big thing it has to go through nomination which isn’t what you call a nominee but then it has to be seconded
13:53and verified and then it’s long listed right and so the short list of five for the r andb category for say that that
13:58get announced on November 4th right it’s probably not going to make that right because of various things that means
14:05it’s not getting exposure maybe in this country anyway um but whatever it’s it’s
14:11it’s a it’s a big deal you know what I mean it’s like look crazy it’s done in a done in a studio in in Nottingham you
14:17know a real budget Studio you know with crew that know what they’re doing on
14:22everything’s local everyone’s going like look we can do this and it’s like I
14:28don’t know I don’t Know What It Takes I’m like I don’t know what it takes I don’t know you know what I asked this to
14:33a lot of people do you think if you were you and your team were based in London it would be different for you uh yeah
14:39I’d be fried I hate I hate I hate working out of London it’s like whenever you know
14:46when we were limo around when we signed you go in oh that’s great and you’re getting out in the gas stations for
14:52sandwich and and all these kids are going who’s that who’s that cuz you’re in a limo whatever it’s like you’re
14:57getting getting fed from from A to B and then you partying and it’s like it’s great you try and work like that it’s
15:02like no it’s like you’re disconnected from your roots you just you don’t know why you making like it’s like a dog
15:08chasing its own tail it’s like you forgotten why you’re doing it you know what I mean what would you say the main changes are from the industry now and
15:15the industry obviously before 30 years ago because you’ve done both you’ve been in
15:21both The Gatekeepers seem to be more hidden there I think I don’t know why
15:26that’s not getting I’m not even a a letter you know an email back from Dean going oh that’s great can’t we can’t do
15:32it or anything I don’t and and and obviously BBC introducing is a big deal
15:37right big platform big platform they basically go you can’t get on the BBC without going through introducing more or less unless you’re a big label in
15:43which case you just drop it down the top of the the the shoot you know what I mean it’s like oh it’s from whatever
15:49from Excel right it’s like oh great and there’s a big press campaign or whatever so it’s legit somehow right big budget
15:54in that so they decide and it’s almost impossible to get played on BBC Radio so so the good thing is BBC wake up well
16:05I I I don’t know I mean they play some great stuff ironically the same week I had this girl Vicki Victoria in right um
16:12afro Caribbean girl written her own song and I I put this together she’d got some
16:17backing vocals done on Fiverr and I’m stitching them together I’m going I think we got this Vick she’s going yeah yeah so I put this tune together from
16:23her songwriting right and pitching and only autotune and whatever she dropped that to Dean the same day and he made it
16:29single of the week the next day and I’m like look that’s good you do j a nice track right but it’s like why aren’t you
16:36interested in this major transatlantic collaboration um and it’s not you know
16:42it’s the second time we’ve done that record we did it again because Warner stitched us up the first time around right they didn’t give us a statement
16:48for 20 years they wouldn’t even answer our lawyer our lawyer goes ignoring me too you got 10K recouped you think cuz
16:54that’s what it’s going to cost to take them to court it’s what they do they sit on it until they get threatened yeah big
17:00Bank take little bank that’s what they do right and now we had when we when we Rew went at it we had John Hughes out in
17:05the states who was um ex vice president of marketing I think at Warner in the states and he’s independent now and he
17:12says he has conversations with Warners and they going they can’t find the paperwork Lads don’t worry about it they can’t find the contract Just Go With It
17:18you I mean there they’re not going to be they can’t object to you doing a Taylor Swift effectively doing it again you know what I mean um crazy so I don’t
17:26know so you said what’s the big difference um everything changes everything stays the
17:32same is is what I’m figuring out the internet The Gatekeepers right yeah The Gatekeepers so in in in essence you’ve
17:39got this big democratization where anyone can put music up on Spotify but then you get crazy statistics and I
17:44don’t know what the stat is but there’s a crazy amount of tracks listen to less than once or less than twice on on Spotify it’s in 80% I don’t know what it
17:52is really and then you get Spotify rinsing it so you you don’t even get paid if you get less than a thousand
17:57streams and you I mean this whole YouTube channel is dedicated to that ask you know Spotify let’s say for example
18:03you know they do this yearly Roundup do they push certain artists on there I don’t need the algorithms cuz not just
18:10that every playlist they have like I get it but like every single like playlist
18:15every like I don’t necessarily listen to Drake for example right but then he’s always on everyone’s top five why I’ll
18:21go minute that’s what it is I yeah and I don’t know I mean you know I was a coder right I was an AI coder I like yeah how
18:27do you code your algorithm well they they’re you know they’re faded and that’s Black Ops stuff that is it’s like
18:33how is it happening you I mean what what is it who do you have to pay I mean the Payola is happening right for sure to
18:38get to get thing I mean anyone can buy streams on Spotify I mean you’ll get hammered by your Dro if they find out
18:44yeah so I don’t know so it’s democratized and in theory anyone can get music out but The Gatekeepers still
18:49seem to be controlling those Gates we were talking about it this week like you get videos with 500,000 views with like
18:56three comments and you know they’ve been bought yeah and um but people use numbers as uh validification in it they
19:03say if that’s got so many views something must be right well numbers do lie numbers do lie numbers can lie yeah
19:10num and so stuff is blowing up you know you know what happens on Facebook it’s like no one see [ __ ] no one sees
19:16anything unless you pay for it right so it’s like and then and then you get Shadow banned because of the stuff you
19:22like yeah it’s like oh okay right you don’t like that then you know what I mean um so whatever so how much of
19:30that’s like just algorithmic take down how much of that’s someone you know Greg Castell that was managing director at
19:36Universal records managed Emily sday right was he’s a connection through one of my mates who was head of anr at MCA
19:41the guy that’s on W and and he went to Spotify Europe he’s still there I think
19:47um and and and so that’s a real interesting relationship I’m not I’m not suggesting Greg Castell is up to any
19:53anything nefarious but I’m saying there’s a real interesting relationship going on there and so he’s also
19:59frustrated I’ve heard directly from him that they’ve got they’re launching artists on universal and throwing 10 15
20:0520 30k at stuff and it’s going nowhere and then sometimes something will blow up and they’re not quite sure why it’s
20:10happening right so I don’t think they’re in in full control of the stats either you know do you think the term industry
20:16plants is a thing so as in what
20:22so basically like some like someone that’s been pushed so much who hasn’t
20:29really put in work who hasn’t really put in the time or who isn’t really that good I I don’t know but look at that
20:34Diddy stuff going on right and the selection who’s who’s selected for what and who gets pushed up front it’s like
20:39there’s like hierarchies there’s like there’s Dynasty go going on it’s like up there yeah up there at that level
20:46Jay-Z you I mean it’s like why was what that oh that’s crazy so I don’t know man
20:52I mean I’ve got I’ve got close enough to catch downwind of some of that that high
20:57level stuff and I’m I’m staying clear of that stench that’s like I’m not going anywhere near that it’s like I don’t
21:03like the vibe that’s coming out of these asons and he you know whatever so I don’t
21:09know um it is a big question in it I don’t think it’s answerable in
21:16there so much great music and then and then and then what happens is you know Ed Sheran has every single on the album
21:22charting number one or whatever because it’s the biggest ever Tik Tok marketing spend people don’t people forget that
21:28right nothing go anywhere without massive marketing spend and being able to open the doors like with Misty Blue
21:36Apple sat on our mixes 10 mixes for 17 different changes it was three months
21:43before they accepted the remixes at all what was the little changes or the naming of them they wouldn’t accept it
21:48first they weren’t accept his T right tile yeah so they go you can’t just like no it really is these people right and
21:55then they go oh is it we need verification we need a contract or something okay this is kicker right
22:00they’re not a tiny distributor they’re legit Sheffield right they’re small compared to some of the you know whatevers but and so they wouldn’t
22:08accept the changes now if you’re at Universal or XL you’ve got connections that can pick up and actually speak to
22:14someone Apple which is like no one speaks to anyone Apple you know catino I don’t know what is going on there right
22:20and so it’s like you can’t you’re dealing with people juniors in the office that don’t I don’t know what you’re dealing with right and and
22:26they’re going nah no and they don’t give you don’t tell you what it is that you need to do so finally they got it accepted and then it’s like oh now the
22:32mixes are streaming right we’re starting to clock up some streams it’s like months absolute months that doesn’t
22:38happen to Big labels right I don’t think that’s deliberate that they’re trying to choke it but if you were trying to choke
22:44it that would be a might effective strategy yeah I think that’s just incompetence right the 17 changes you
22:49made was it much difference from the start to you have to ask Frank the distributor it was Tiny differences we were trying to get the remixes because
22:55the problem was even Spotify had this massive problem so we had uh um Lizzie curious she’s got 165
23:02monthly 165,000 monthly listeners on Spotify right something like that she’s she’s pretty well known in this kind of
23:08dance scene right we could not get her or Grace bones or anyone else’s these mixes that we dropped they would not
23:14appear in their profile so they were appearing ours but not theirs and we go what’s happening and it’s like Frank’s
23:21trying to sort it’s normally works fine right it’s like and it’s like I don’t know they eventually they sorted it but
23:27it’s choked by that point you know missing those virals you are missing that that initial wave it gets a massive
23:33kick to go into that and it’s like that’s gone it’s like we’ve had whatever kicks gone on and then the marketing spend to to to put it down the funnels
23:40is kind of gone and and now it’s ticking up organically but you’re missing that bump missed the main one that so I don’t
23:46know why that happens right but it’s but you know like I said that would happen whoever you are on whatever distributor
23:53you are potentially unless you’re a label where you’ve got those back door connections
23:58there like oh can you speak to what’s his name at Apple we got this to sort out what do we have to do and you’ll get an answer back and it’ll happen and
24:04it’ll happen real quick that’s crazy that’s what I’m that’s what I think I don’t know cuz I don’t sit in those meetings but that’s that seems to be
24:10happen right um back to yourself then when did you go from doing what you were doing to then
24:17teaching Uh I that was back in the ’90s we so it’s square center as it became we
24:23we moved the studio from Derby well we set another one up in Nottingham with the money that that the M the commission
24:28money the manager white manager and it was it became an alist studio right it’s one of the biggest recording halls in
24:35the country uh beautiful space what was that called Square Center on just Mansville Road it’s now
24:43bulldozed and uh John who was uh was running submission when I signed joh
24:49Crossley set up a nottingam music school which was the first one in Nottingham and so we had that and he through
24:55Clarendon which has became new College Nottingham yeah and we were teaching hncs and D’s and I
25:02just went oh yeah sure you know with this good model and so I stepped in and started doing you know teaching as close
25:10to mentoring because I’ve done a lot of mentoring bringing people up yeah um with that close one-onone which is the
25:16only real way to learn this game right if you really want to learn how to mix you got to sit with people that can mix watching them out on YouTube channels
25:22where it’s all myth and they’re teaching it crap you just put you can’t ask a YouTube channel question that’s right
25:28and you don’t and and you and it’s like there is great information on there but you have to know that that’s great information not misleading you do you
25:34think that a lot of people are watching YouTube and learning all these new things learning all of that do you think it’s taken away from actually just
25:40learning yourself and actually just doing it uh to a certain extent because there’s a
25:46lot of red herrings out there like the the the the side chain compression bollocks it’s just everyone’s going
25:52everyone’s going right I need to side chain my my 808 and my 909 kicks or whatever those those Realm deep it’s
25:59like and you got suck these frequencies out at this point it’s like yeah sometimes in Hip Hop maybe you might do
26:04that with a little touch of multiband but actually no one tells a jazz drummer
26:09and a bass player not to lick at the same time right you want them nailed together right like your ears the way
26:15the music works the harmonics work they gone through each other you can pick a Kick Drum and a bass KN apart absolutely
26:21when I started we did the opposite you you key gated it so you had oh the kick drum’s right so let’s keyate the base it
26:28so it feels like it lands tight on the base so there’s a load of stuff like that like every even isotope you know
26:34it’s like a joke I was like I looked at the isotop gun oh here we goope 11 you know I was only 11 and I use that some
26:41of it and um and and it’s like okay let’s have a look at your explosion on side chain and I’m like okay okay great
26:46and then I’ve got it on my full range Master monitors and I’m going dude are you not listening it sounds worse it sounds worse listen um I don’t you know
26:55it’s like they’re not they don’t have Master Engineers doing it they don’t have the ear in it that’s what it is they don’t have the experience they don’t know you know they’re they’re also
27:02going an urban myth I commented on an isot one uh yesterday and um it was
27:07about compression bus compression in the mix and he was using Isotopes multiband
27:14compression and and and he split into three bands and he’s going yeah and it’s like well because yeah we were reducing
27:19some Dynamics I’m saying why do you want to reduce the Dynamics he doesn’t answer that question to start with he ends up slicing the bottom end off a Bas because
27:26he had it somewhere on YouTube that’s and going like that and I’m going look I’m I can’t let this go sorry Sam but
27:31you know this listen listen to it get some full range of mons and listen one’s Punchy and I can Master it the other one
27:37you sliced it I can’t do anything with it so that’s isotope telling you that right and I mean other other people are
27:43on there going it sounds better without it uh and I’m not the only one I mean it’s like you got to use your ears
27:49instead of watching The Emperor’s New Clothes you know the guy’s naked sorry you know what I mean it’s
27:54like that’s crazy is mad is mad man such a music industry is crazy um it is so
28:01that was basically nottingam then when did you did you come to Leicester and start teaching yeah so I started at so I
28:07set the first audio degree up at confetti um in Nottingham which is now
28:14part ofam Trent and uh and then I ran that Pro training for a bit which is like apple shts and protol shts and all
28:20that sort of stuff uh part-time you know all of this right and um and then uh I
28:27came down down here and I started at leester college and with with shortly I was at dford as well so I was bringing
28:33people up from leester college we were getting these tight kind of cohorts as like 16 people a lot of them dropped
28:40through the educational net and I was picking them up in their top up year at De monford and some of these guys were
28:46getting the student of the year award At Dem monford right they came from like top students because because we’d been
28:52able to put some real close support around them and proper mentoring rather than like teach there’s no such thing as
28:58teaching there’s only mentoring there’s only learning right the only active principle is learning you can’t teach anyone [ __ ] you can help them to learn
29:05right yeah you can give them the tools you can give them you give them the tools and you can go all right and unlock stuff and and but they need
29:11challenging to start learning and triangulating for themselves so this the the art is to teach people how to learn and go yeah check that is that right or
29:18is that just nonsense you know what I mean what is your process of teaching say he’s just come he wants to learn but he doesn’t know much where do we start
29:25uh you find out what you find out where are I mean you can call it PRI learn and all sorts of technical terms but you got
29:31to know why where you go right what do you understand so there’ be some quizzing and some like oh show me what oh okay you get that so do you know so
29:38you got to figure out where they are and then you got to match where they want to go and go H we a few steps away from that you got to get this first so you’re
29:44going to try and put plans in place to go right we’re going to do that so that’s that’s that that private kind of mentoring thing if someone in the
29:50industry goes oh you don’t go away and listen to this do you understand that when you when you can come back and tell me what this is in this double in this
29:57listening test then we’ll move on to the next kind of idea you have to be able to hear this first right it’s it’s like
30:03it’s everyone’s different right so you have to figure out where they want to go where they are um and sometimes
30:11sometimes you know people don’t have it you know some some of it’s seems to be innate like frequency like you know
30:17people play like Demi’s pitch is great it’s like that’s not always the case I was going to ask do you think that that
30:23you’re born with it or you’re not is case you can you can refine it I think yeah but you you it’s kind of there or
30:30it’s not I think there’s a there’s an element of of it right yeah you got you got to have it I think you do have to
30:36have it bro well I always I’m a big believer in you or not yeah that’s it
30:42Messi and Ronaldo the born with it yeah they’re born with it man born with it do you know what I mean um well I think no
30:49I think on that on that argument I think ralo worked his ass off to get to I think Messi’s he’s he’s a natural he’s
30:57born he’s alien in my opinion but Ronaldo’s got the perfect football as body Messi ain’t but look how good Messi
31:03is but discipline right staying behind practicing the free kick ex you need that however good you are it’s your it’s
31:11your game right you know there are a lot of people it’s like if you want to be great at your game you’ve got to put the
31:17work in you have to have the personal discipline guess you know what I really think probably this guesses a bit of both really um can we move on to so when
31:26did kjam record start yeah uh we launched
31:31that when was that it’s kind of just coming out of lockdown about about 3 years ago
31:38something like that we put the first it’s like we’re like okay we we we’re
31:43working on uh all these great music and it’s like let’s you know let’s the idea
31:49was to do an old school what you call a production label right so when we set circus Studios up which was
31:5697 we celebrated 25th year in a 27th for lots of weird reasons but um lockdown
32:02being one of them but um we wanted somewhere to work on our stuff we had this production deal with square center
32:09but we had to give like 50% of anything we made or whatever it was that was anything track so well well let’s do as
32:14much as we can out of there and and so we need somewhere cuz time is the thing you need right you don’t need all the
32:21fancy fancy tools you don’t need to keep collecting plugins right what you need is skills and time and and then no
32:28that’s not right you I mean and that’s like you need ideas and harness them so you don’t to be racking up massive
32:33Studio bills so we’re going well let’s set it up so there was production companies that they’d kind of go right
32:39you know yeah yeah look we’ll give you some money and we’ll give you load of studio time but then we want X cut of it right so we wanted to do that in a new
32:46kind of sense and go we’re going to budget we don’t have eduan budget we don’t have any budget but we’ll get your
32:51tracks out right through Horus originally which we’ve now gone to kicker for lots of reasons yeah there’s
32:57lot ler people say you know I know I remember Aaron her are talking about um
33:03um about Horus and going in principle it’s kind of good but oh it’s just it’s just kind of for me it’s a bit beige
33:10right it’s like it’s like it’s lowest common denominator music for artists like by
33:17dots you know like you know what I mean it’s like there’s no accommodation for what’s really what’s really makes people
33:24stand out in some sense they I’m sure they do some really good stuff but so we wanted to do that um and they went yeah
33:31you sure we’ll give you a label deal and they take a percentage but it’s like well like I said he don’t go anywhere unless you really put Marketing in it
33:37but look it’s here it’s out there you guys can help Market it we’ve got you the first hurdle right this stuff should
33:43be out yeah yeah so we’re doing our due diligence and we can hope that we then license that on somewhere up the chain
33:49and people go oh yeah you know what we’ll we’ll take that from you because you’re now got the copyright in it so
33:54that was the idea of it um and then where did uh Dove comeing to play with that so Dove came in from uh he called
34:03me going you know anything about this guy W cliff and I’m going yeah I
34:08engineered as I wasn’t the only one but I was one of the engineers the big Nam is W Cliff had a lot about him so w he
34:14had his time and then so so yeah so he got signed to MCA for 3/4 of a million
34:21quid um he had he had two advances so he probably got half a mill that’s my guess um and uh he the
34:32first album did okay that we we kind of did that ourselves John Crossley produced it and I engineered it and then
34:39the second LP um Tim simonon and Chris Porter um were shedule Chris por was the
34:46main producer so this this is big producer right so we took it down to his farmhouse in Sur where he’s got his
34:52flash studio and kind of transferred it all over and then they did a lot of reworks and whatever and commercialized
34:57it open light actually to me lost the Dark Soul of it you know the the kind of late Smoky nights that we’ captured in
35:03it anyway whatever the the second album started ticking over a bit better and then they finally got a track a-listed
35:09so the radio one were going to hammer it and MCA distribution had done a really big boo boo and you couldn’t Buy in the
35:15shops they couldn’t buy the vinyl or the cassettes which was CR critical at that point in the ’90s right so it wasn’t available so it bombed and not long
35:23after that I was working with Jeremy Alam who was just fresh from a massive
35:28attack remix somewhere and he was doing a schedule for a w Cliff Donovan Donovan’s his
35:35first name um remix and me and Jeremy would got in at 10: in the morning or
35:40whatever we’re lining everything up whatever getting on with it and I’m like I’m looking around it’s a bit weird it’s tea time he’s normally in a you know
35:47lunchtime and I’m like where is he and uh and he’s like not appear and then and then and then I’m like the studio door
35:54opens and I’m like it’s I like Don’s great me and Jeremy focused on the big console and whatever the monitors and
36:01and I’m like after a while I’m going where is he there’s a big metor bridge behind us like this big racks of
36:07kit here right and I’m looking around where’s he gone where’s he gone I’m like that’s weird he must have gone out the
36:13back for a [ __ ] and I I look again and it’s like still not there what I’m sure he came in and then suddenly he appears
36:19star jump and goes praise J the far drops down again I’m like what the [ __ ]
36:26just happened and I’m like yeah no the guy likes to laugh right you know but and whatever
36:33and it’s like I don’t know I don’t know what I’m there but whoa he just you know
36:38drops off the edge so you know there’s a lot of drugs going on there’s a lot of pressure
36:44everyone’s saying yes all the time the band and others are trying to keep his feet on the ground I don’t know but you
36:50know the man had a big sharp nose dive meteoric crash into crack them and and
36:57and Drug and and mental health and uh you know do you think do you think it
37:03was do you think it was the them not having the tapes and the CDs and everything kind of all that pressure and
37:09everything at that time look at look at Liam yeah right he gets dropped from his
37:15label he’s dead 3 days later that’s the rumor right it’s like it’s a big deal when you get dropped from your label I
37:20don’t know I don’t know what you know it’s like you you you get to those heady Heights and it’s like you can easily
37:26lose touch with who you are and and and I’ve seen people arguing no one should get a major recording contract without a
37:31mental health nurse you know like proper contct look you need help we need to keep you rooted right it’s like that W
37:37go it I mean that’s a hell of a lot of pressure if you’re not rooted with by your family by look or by good parenting
37:44or whatever it is right then any any weaknesses in it that kind of come out you’re flying on all these magic
37:50mushrooms and and God knows what else you you know whatever else’s party drugs you’re taking right and you got to remember these labels and these record
37:58labels that they all hungry as well right and and so even if you’re not on drugs even you’re on green tea you know
38:03the pressure is intense just because no one talks music in these labels I was
38:08astonished when we were at London it’s like Pete Tong was the only person ever talked to us about the mix we would go
38:14what do you think and people were just terrified to talk to you about it I’m like man that’s really mad it’s like
38:19you’re expecting it’s like oh it’s it’s like I don’t I I was that was odd for me
38:25being not in not being in the industry obviously thinking about it like I just think it’d be a hit song like if it’s a
38:30hit song it’d go but then now yeah that’s crazy just I’ve got I’ve got dats
38:36and dats full of tapes like you know hundreds of hours worth of great music that never even got released and and
38:43then there’s more that got released and and he’s sat not doing anything right we released Pete bedsworth album on kjam
38:49records the earlier this year the guy’s a genius he’s one of those musical Geniuses that musicians tune into and go
38:55oh that’s him so he’s a kind of kid that Damon Damon Alor is kind of like going oh that’s great and they’re taking
39:01inspiration from right the dude’s writing in 78 and and it’s like he funky as [ __ ] and whatever I’m like I know one
39:08he’s got he said a few thousand streams but you I mean but not hit the major numbers yeah that’s so I yeah I don’t
39:13know I don’t know it’s all hype it’s all Emperor’s New Clothes that’s the that’s the issue I’ve got a question for you
39:19personally what is your favorite piece of work you’ve ever worked on piece of music or
39:25project God that’s an interesting one and then I’m going to ask about
39:31David Bowie the favorite piece of music I ever worked
39:43on I I don’t know you know cuz there’s so there’s so many there’s so many things have you had a load of up moments
39:49in your career yeah I this you’re going to ask what’s your best moment from that back in the day what was your favorite moment in in the industry cuzz another
39:56one of my questions what was um what obstacles you come across but we’ve already spoke a bit about obstacles and
40:03yeah obstacles don’t go away and they’re all they’re all new now like you said when people are getting judges on numbers they’re new so
40:11um yeah I don’t know I mean there’s lots of questions there um there’s a there’s a load of stuff
40:18that I’ll listen to I’ll come on on whatever and I’m like I sounds oh that’s
40:23one of my mixes oh yeah that was great you know what I mean and it’s like it’s it’s like going on you know so there’s
40:29the the the the moments for me are are not the moment you might
40:37expect yeah so there’s there’s a there’s an artist called Rose McQueen Rose McQueen whatever she goes by from La
40:44that that um one of the lads from Horus got me in on and and I mixed her stuff over a lot
40:50down and she’s not releasing anymore and some of these tracks were absolutely astonishing and I’m there on my own
40:56right in the studio mixing them up and I’m like this just tracks coming together I’m going oh my
41:01God that’s great and I’ve got this full system right and I’ve got this soundscape emerging in front of me why
41:07are you written that what you just like so I’m Amazed by this right and then I come back go for go you know go out for
41:13a a couple of beer or whatever I come back and and now it’s 2 3 in the morning I’ve put it on and I’ve cranked it up
41:18and I’m like oh my God that’s good no one’s ever going to hear it as good as this so the you know some of those
41:24moments for me are that connection with the music it’s like it’s spine it’s you’re in tears sometimes with what’s
41:29going on right so sometimes you’re like wow bang bang part that’s you know what I mean so that’s stuff like no one else
41:36get gets to know about it you hear all these artists like most some artists obviously before they go into a studio
41:41they either do a little have a drink have a smoke or do whatever do you think
41:47is that the same for the producers as well to get you need to be on that creative sort of Mind wave uh if you
41:53want to spend 20 hours eqing high hats then that’s a great idea right better than Red Bull you pretty you
41:59pretty soon learn that that if you want to do that then you know actually weed might not necessarily mess with your
42:06hearing if I have half a pint of beer I don’t have the accurity at the 10K region to put the picture together that
42:12I need right I can do broad stroke stuff and I can produce and I can do other things but if I’m Mi mix into that that
42:18final Premier League or Master into that world class whatever I can’t do it after half a point right you can probably get
42:24away with a couple of reefers maybe back in the day when used to do that but it’s like the problem is you literally come
42:31in the next day going I spent 16 hours EQ in High House what was I doing yesterday that’s just a waste of time you you got to work man you got to get
42:38through stuff and and also it takes you down rabbit holes it’s like no you’re not getting a big picture necessarily yeah you’re focusing on if you want to
42:45if whatever you want to do recreationally do it recreationally but your your work it’s like the work is loving itself right so yeah definitely
42:52I’ve got one last question for you what would be your moment that you life
42:58complete you’ve done it you’ve made your you’ve hit your target that you’ve initially set out for great question
43:03well yeah here’s the answer to that so John Peele used to go on about we did a
43:08John Peele session by the way with Coco Kings um John Peele legendary broadcaster right he used to say I I
43:15don’t care what happened to Liverpool last season I’ve got another they got another game tomorrow yeah so I that’s
43:21that’s my answer to that one it’s like you know you got to you’ve got to be thinking the best Works yet to come otherwise what you doing
43:28right in a good quote that is good quote that is might have to put that one up that a good quote I like you got any last questions Rie no I’m all good I
43:35think we covered a lot you wanted to know about the Bowie mix right oh yeah yeah yeah good thing you remember you
43:41now um so it was a Back to Basics uh mix right it’s mood swings Back to Basics
43:47it’s on Spotify on on the Black Tie White Noise later Edition right and it
43:53was for his 50th birthday believe it or not okay and Arista one of the guys from
43:58Arista Martin Watson who also talking Lester for a bit here um uh brought it in and and and so they wanted to do
44:05something special for David’s 50th 50th right and so they commissioned this um I
44:10didn’t meet him I was like we got the sent the tape but the spookiest thing in your life is like you got this dark
44:15studio and I’ve got the 2in tape lined up and it’s like whatever it’s like it’s night flights truck so you got to start
44:21pulling playing with it and see what you’re going to sample and whatever I push the faders up and B his voice I’m going oh my God
44:27it’s like he’s right there with you it’s just such a such a legend you know what I mean such a a hero and there’s a lot
44:34of stuff like don’t meet your Heroes cuz she it’s like I don’t think I’d have been disappointed with David Bo if I could have hung out with him I got one
44:39more as well go on go on who would be the dream person you want to work with in the studio you know what right
44:48now I don’t think like that right I don’t look at big artists right and
44:54think I’d love to work with them I listen listen to track sometimes and go who the hell mastered that why didn’t
44:59you give it to me right but I don’t think I’d love to work with whatever big
45:04name ad whatever right I I I like working there’s so much talent that
45:11doesn’t make it right right right% and so I don’t ever think it would be great to it with any particular artist or
45:18whatever right it’s like almost like a pathway it’s like I I really enjoy working your production style what do
45:25you think would suit who who do you think it would suit if you were to then say that yeah this person suits my style
45:30of production well you again right so a million Sons right it’s it’s like that’s an R&B track it’s like we just dropping
45:37another track which is called underground night music which is a house Cher right yeah know and and and and
45:43then my other band Hoover which is like whatever it’s got about three plays but it’s full on Indie and and Lee mman lpmc
45:50that I’m producing it’s full on Indie kind of like um Stereophonics kind of thing right so it’s like I don’t go into
45:58boxes easily right so which is a good thing yeah and I’m like I don’t mind it’s like give me some folk right it’s
46:05like I’m you know I’m doing some drill recently which I’ve not really done it’s like and I’m like this this kid come to me from ASP Nottingham and I’m like it’s
46:12all right you know that whatever I’m like so I’m like whatever so you go what’s YouTube what they doing with that
46:17all right yeah well so your trick is to go we want to do that we want to reference that like that but then we got
46:22to do something new with it it’s like what’s the point in doing it again you got you got to find your identity in that right USP in it the same with the
46:28mastering All AA M AI mastering it it makes your it’s better than than most no
46:35mice Engineers right but it just homogenizes it into like the you know the middle ground the middle for didd
46:41and what Master Engineers a good do is they go oh yeah yeah that’s like Drake but actually if we do that and twist it
46:46it’s like there’s a bit of a new element coming to it here we’re picking it out because that’s you in this track and AI
46:52can’t do that because it doesn’t have a concept of what what’s happening in tracks it doesn’t it’s not invested in the emotions in the tracks or what the
46:58drummer’s doing whether the drummer’s got a spliff hanging out the corner of his mouth or whether he’s like you know mu pits or whatever you what I mean
47:04that’s why we all need the human touch well that’s going to be long long long time right but yeah thanks again for
47:11coming on appreciate you coming on man thank you cheers um cheers Brothers pick up the sponsors this week we got Gypsy
47:17ly chippy U Mama’s Kitchen INB designs manmade barers even though it’s not
47:23fresh uh flexy vehicle higher perro 2 that’s it and big up that’s the podcast
47:29studio and ID records kid